makita router edge guide

Reviewed in the United States on September 11, 2020, Can someone that has this PLEASE HELP ME? Having several Makita guide rails and several routers from many manufacturers, I found a need for a router guide for my 118” Makita rail. Bosch. Edge Guide for Makita RF/RD1100 and RF/RD1101 Routers Rides along the edge of your workpiece, allowing you to rout straight channels, fluting and other decorative effects. The straight guide requires a guide holder part no. Some users found the guide does not fit the fixed base compact router model DWP611PK as advised by the seller. Workpiece 5. Its just not working for me. Find answers in product info, Q&As, reviews. Templet 4. Some users complained about the poor quality adjustment knob. For Model : Part No: 3700B, N3701, 3703, 4402: Straight guide: 122391-0: 3600, 3600H, 3601B: 123029-0: 3709, 3710: 122704-5: 3612BR: 342428-9: RP0900, RP1110C, 3620 Amazon, the Amazon logo, AmazonSupply, and the AmazonSupply logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates. Woodraphic Professional Dual Function Scriber Gauge for Measuring and Marking - All... Whiteside Router Bits 6003 Bead Stile and Rail Set with 7/8-Inch Cutting Length. Unable to add item to List. Add To List Click to add item Bosch® Palm Router Straight Edge Guide to your list. Harvet R0700 is another top product with certain tricks up the sleeve. The Makita RT0700C (recently updated to RT701C) occupies a nice position in the router market alongside its most visible competitors from Bosch and DeWalt. Hitachi 323342 Straight Guide is a non-breakable router accessory, … Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Bessey GTR16S6H All Steel Ratcheting Table Clamp with 6 5/16" Capacity x 2 5/16" Throat Depth & 540 lb Clamping Force, Red/Silver. To be used with the guide rails on the Makita models SP600K/K1. for pricing and availability. Please make sure that you are posting in the form of a question. Makita Router Edge Guide and Holder Kit (342428-9 and 122700-3) SKU MAKRTRGUIDE Pieces work in correlation with your router to help guide you and hold the material you are working with I also have the Festool 492601 Guide Stop, which I had planned to adapt to my non-Festool router collection, but have not done it yet. With a router edge guide in place, your hand-held router becomes the perfect tool for cutting dadoes, grooves and mortises. Was: £34.50. The second set of rods are 3-3/8" apart on center and have a diameter of 5/16". This accessory works best with your Makita tool (as specified in the package). Also I am using this with the Makita track from the Makita track saw but my understanding is it will also work with Festool track.I cannot answer a question for any other routers as I don’t own or haven’t tried it with any other routers other than those listed I do have a Makita RF 1101 and a porter cable 7518 but those are in router tables and I doubt it will work with either of those. Im wanting to put dados in my work bench to add t track. They fit snugly, just right. Get To Know Never Before Shared Secrets Tips & Tricks By Experts And Veteran Craftsmen, Sign up below to get access to your FREE EBook, Features adjustment control for fine precision. Improper application of the guide attachments can affect the product. Let me say it is most likly user error. Some users spotted faulty design and poor quality of the guide. Durable router edge slide made from an extruded aluminum body. Using the removed base plate as a guide I set the distance for the width of my cut on the table saw, by placing the router plate to the inside edge of the blade and setting my fence at the point it make contact with the plate on the opposing side and locked down my fence I then made my cut. Double Flute Straight Bit with 1/4" Shank (04-102),Red, Metabo HPT Router | Fixed Base | 11 Amp Motor | 2-1/4 Peak HP | Variable Speed | M12VC, Aidelife Rotary hammer dust collection attachment,Universal Dust shroud for drilling. Compare Click to add item "Bosch® Palm Router Straight Edge Guide" to the compare list. Spare part S31. To my defence - I expected the router guide to attach to a groove or mechanism shaped to accept the guide. However, if the micro adjust is important to you ,than i would avoid this guide fence, as the micro adjust is unusable. You can make precise and straight router cuts with little effort. There's a problem loading this menu right now. 61.8”Guide Rail Bag, Track Saw Carrying Case, Circular Saw Guide Tool Bag, Protecti... Buy Casters Retractable Leveling Machine Casters - 4 Pack - 2,400 lbs Per Set. According to a comment made on Home Depot site you can order the straight edge and adapter from service at HD: The router can accepts a variety of Makita accessories including a straight guide part no.342428-9. Model #MRP01. Verified purchase: Yes | Condition: Pre-owned Compare; Find My Store. Some users gave negative feedback regarding the quality of the fine fence adjuster. Its cool to have another use for the over-priced Makita Track Saw Track too. item 2 DEWALT DNP618 Router Edge Guide for Fixed Base Compact Router ,Medium,Durability 2 - DEWALT DNP618 Router Edge Guide for Fixed Base Compact Router ,Medium,Durability. If I ever purchase the Festool 1400, I'm sure I'll appreciate the micro-adjustability of the Festool guide stop, which is lacking on the Makita adapter. Has an adapter to attach to standard shop vacuum hoses (1-1/4-inch, 1-1/2-inch), This straight edge guide features a precise fine fence adjuster system ensuring precision set-up (positioning) of the parallel fence. Click & Collect. Please try again. Distance (X) 6. Model #PR101. Sku # 2364084. Select another color to get back on track. First of all Makita you really do need to sort out clear and concise descriptions of how to assemble and use your equipment, while your tools are excellent your instructions are probably the worst there is. Allows quick attachment system to the fixed base compact router, Precise positioning of dadoes, inlays, and others, Up to 3 inches extendable from edge of the material, Easy lock positioning and slide adjustment features. £33.88. Makita 194579-2 Router Guide Rail Adapter. Package comes with a number of other useful router accessories, including dust extraction hood, pivot plate, etc. Reviewed in the United States on July 21, 2018. wanted this item for a Makita 0700 the 1/4 inch Router if you buy the 8mm rods it works fine. Free postage. Categorized: Tools and Accessories, Woodworking, Your email address will not be published. Product Overview Expect performance, versatility and precision in a compact size with Makita's 1-1/4 HP Compact Router Kit (model RT0701CX7). The price is right! Ergonomic design and well-built with high quality materials, Has intuitive quick set-up system and is easy to operate. Im a 68 year old self taught woodworking grandma. 10 Best Cabinet Hardware Jigs [Reviews] 2021 | Top Picks, 8 Best Chainsaws for Firewood – 2021 [Reviews] | Top Picks, 7 Best Arborist Chainsaws in 2021 [Top Picks] Review, 7 Best Chainsaw Chains for Hardwood & Firewood | Reviews, 10 Best Shop Vacs for Woodworking in 2021 [Reviews] | Buying Guide. Comparably priced guides from Bosch and the DeWalt offer a micro-adjustment mechanism, plastic contact edge to reduce stiction and a vacuum shroud. Your recently viewed items and featured recommendations, Select the department you want to search in, Makita 199232-5 Guide Rail Adapter, Circular Saws, Makita 321492-3 Template Guide Adapter, Silver. Reviewed in the United States on August 16, 2018. Reviewed in the United States on January 24, 2020. The Bosch actually has a cast aluminum body. The guide is used to measure the distance from the edge of the material being cut to the blade, to aid in making long rip cuts. It delivers speed, power, and precision in a handy and easy-to-use package. Getting the Perfect Fit With your router edge guide in place, you’ll make a preliminary pass and measure the width of the cut with calipers. Router Guide Adaptor for Guide Rail for use with Makita guide rails 194368-5 and 194367-7 - page 2 I ordered this hoping it would fit my Festool OF1400 or my DeWalt 618pk. With a full 1-1/4 maximum horsepower, the RT0701C is engineered for a range of precision routing applications. Can be used for many projects that require dado cuts, grooves, and rabbets; Compatible with plunge and fixed base routers; Large surface area for straight and curved edges for radial cuts; Straight edge has a maximum travel of approximately 5-1/2″ Mortise Guide Delivers precise performance and keeps the workspace free from wood dust. ... Makita XTR01Z 18V LXT Lithium-Ion Brushless Compact Router … This shopping feature will continue to load items when the Enter key is pressed. I took a risk after reading other reviews about compatible bases for this thing and got it for my 1 1/4 hp compact plunge router and it worked just like it should have with the smaller guide rods, and the larger set of rods that were included fit all my porter cable bases as well. Reviewed in the United Kingdom on July 14, 2019. Thinking about buying another one only this time I have to buy the 8mm rods from another supplier. The guide is designed to fit and operate with any DeWalt router. Toolbarn is committed to ensuring you have the tools you need to complete every job which is why we carry a variety of Makita power tools. I have this working on my dewalt DW621 router. I had previously tried the DeWalt guide with the Festool guide rail and did not find it as stable as the Makita guide rail adapter. As for the edge guide, as already stated it can be used for grooves and slots and not much else in my humble opinion, having only used it two or three times for the above in the 46 years that I have been using routers but the Makita ones at least can be useful for other uses as shown. The Festool, I knew was a long shot, and yeah, no dice. Guide bushings are great for templates and use with jigs for bits without bearings.This will also apply to full size… Offset Base & Roller Guide (1) Offset Router Bit Wrench Set (1) Offset Subbase Dust Hood For Mfr. Change wall color, flooring--and furniture!--by clicking below. Then measure the thickness of the piece that will fit into the dado or groove. Top subscription boxes – right to your door, © 1996-2020, Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates. After viewing product detail pages, look here to find an easy way to navigate back to pages you are interested in. Item #1344229. If you are looking for a straight edge guide fence only, than you will be happy with this product. Shop the assortment of options in this category including the 1-1/4 HP compact router kit complete with a tilt base, offset base and plunge base. No Cords Needed Power Equipment Rule the Outdoors with Cordless and Corded Dust Management Build … I dont know what im doing wrong. 2. Ich verwende ihn für meine Makita RT0700 und mit Makita Führungsschienen. So I’m going to give you a list of the routers I have that it works with in a list it does not. Plunge Router Base. I ordered this hoping it would fit my Festool OF1400 or my DeWalt 618pk. Instead, our system considers things like how recent a review is and if the reviewer bought the item on Amazon. Works with: Makita RT701C, Dewalt DW621, ELU 3304 and Black & Decker Quantum Pro Q700 (essentially the same router as the ELU 3304 without the variable speed). For the base I used 1/4 inch thick plywood. This seems like a schoolboy error in the design of an otherwise useful accessory. Attach this adapter to your Makita router to allow use of the commonly available 2-piece PC-style template guides. New Tools NEW 40V max XGT Cordless Electrical Pneumatic Outdoor Power Equipment Cleaning Solutions The LXT Advantage - x2 Get Maximum Performance. Templet guide 003697 Templet guide (optional accessory) The templet guide provides a sleeve through which the bit passes, allowing use of the tool with templet patterns. Item #2675419. Its a combination of metal and plastic but it seems to be solid enough to last forever if taken care of properly. The Makita RP0900K 1¼ HP Plunge Router is the best woodworking router to buy if you want to do small to medium-sized jobs. Freud 3/16" (Dia.) Works on my Festool guide rail and with my Makita 1.25 HP compact router with the plunge base. Some users spotted the router guide to be incompatible with the Ryobi router models. The Micro Fence Edge-Guide easily mounts on your router to add precision usually found only in machine tooling. Fits great with Festool track and Dewalt DW611 compact router. There was an error retrieving your Wish Lists. It would appear that no allowance for the thickness of the guide rail has been made in its design and when assembled the router naturally sits at a slight angle to the work surface. Missing the adjustability found on some of the other adapters. Makita router Straight Edge Side Fence excellent quality come with 10mm rods. Click to add item "Bosch® Palm Router Straight Edge Guide" to the compare list. The adapter features durable metal construction and easy installation. Im using it with a Ryobi plunge router and 3/4 inch diablo bit. Prime members enjoy FREE Delivery and exclusive access to music, movies, TV shows, original audio series, and Kindle books. rp0910, rp1110c, rp1800,rp1801, rp1800f, rp1801f, rp2300fc, rp2301fc, 3612, 3612c, 3612br, rt0700c, rp0900 No. Please try your search again later. Having several Makita guide rails and several routers from many manufacturers, I found a need for a router guide for my 118” Makita rail. for pricing and availability. Easy enough to put together and fit to the rail and router although the instruction pictures are a bit vague as to how to position the router relative to the guide rail and sub plate (I have a RT0700 trim router with plunge base). I'll admit this cost a little more than I would of liked to pay but it is Makita so you are paying for the brand. Please try again. Harvet R0700. With a full 1-1/4 maximum hp and a plunge base included in the kit, the router is engineered for a full range of precision applications. Compare; Find My Store. Shipping ADD TO CART. This can be alleviated by adjusting the foot on the sub base or by a shim under it. Router Sub-base (and Edge Guide): I love my little trim router, but for whatever reason Makita deemed it not fit for use with common Porter Cable (PC) guide bushings. The rails should really be longer to attach better, but it worked well enough for me to put in 3/4" dadoes with my festool rail no problem. This machine … Reviewed in the United States on April 8, 2017. 149 sold. So far all im getting is very uneven dados. Bosch. We Have The Best Brands At The Best Prices Including Milwaukee, Makita, HiKoKi, DeWalt and More! Re: Makita 3612 router edge guide 10-22-2020, 06:10 AM Thank you I am getting a 3612c and I am quite sure my shop will make all of your shops look like a hospital OR I … Reviewed in the United States on December 7, 2014. for pricing and availability. I dont know anyone to ask. Fixed Base for Palm Router. DEWALT Router TrackSaw Guide Adapter (DWS5031), Makita 194733-8 Dust Extracting Nozzle with RT0700CX3 Plunge Base, Makita RT0701CX3 1-1/4 HP Compact Router Kit, Teal, Makita 194418-6 Splinter Guard Replacement Strip, 55-Inch, Bosch Deluxe Router Edge Guide With Dust Extraction Hood & Vacuum Hose Adapter RA1054, Bora Router Dado Jig, the Woodworking Router Guide That Allows For Precise, Straight Dados, Rabbets, and Mortises | 542005, orange, POWERTEC 71410 Quick Screw Guide Rail Clamp for MFT Table and Guide Rail System, 5-3/8” Capacity x 2-3/8” Throat Depth – 2 Pack, POWERTEC 71409 Quick Screw Guide Rail Clamp for MFT and Guide Rail System, 7” Capacity x 2-3/8” Throat Depth – 2 Pack, Makita RP1800 Plunge Router 22, 000 RPM, 3-1/4 HP. Hide thumbs ... Screw 003695 1. Buy Makita 194579-2 Router Guide Adapter suits SP6000 On Sale At Sydney Tools. Edge Guide. Makita Router Straight Edge Guide Side Fence RP1801 RP2301 3612 3612C 194935-6. This fits both the Festool track and the Dewalt DW 611 pk compact router using the plunge base . It delivers speed, power, and precision in a handy and easy-to-use package. The Makita guide is essentially a piece of bent sheet steel. Makita Makita Plunge Router Attachment For RT0700CX #195563-0. As an Amazon associate we earn affiliate commissions from qualifying purchases. In order to navigate out of this carousel please use your heading shortcut key to navigate to the next or previous heading. $35.80. Some users complained about the missing parts necessary for using the guide with the router. If you are like me, you looked at this and thought “ Will this work with my router?“. Model #RA1054. Your email address will not be published. Simply put, the router edge guide, which some refer to as a template guide, is a collar that is mounted onto the base of a hand-held router. The following is a list of routers with which this does not work: porter cable 690, Ridgid R29202 (neither the plunge nor fixed base), Bosch Colt PR10E or PR20E (neither the plunge nor fixed base), ELU 3339.I hope this helps my fellow Woodworkers. The metal edge guide attaches to the saws foot or base assembly. Makita P-20177 Guide Rail Connector Kit, 2/pk, POWERTEC 71387 55” Guide Rail Joining Set | Includes (2) Aluminum Extruded Guided Rails and (2) Guide Rail Connectors for Woodworking Projects | Compatible with Makita or Festool Track Saws, Kreg Rip Cut Circular Saw Guide Review and Setup Tips, Previous page of related Sponsored Products, Here’s the routers I have that I can use this with, Reviewed in the United States on February 12, 2020. 122700-3. 4.5 out of 5 stars (26) 26 product ratings - Makita Router Straight Edge Guide Side Fence RP1801 RP2301 3612 3612C 194935-6. Bit 2. Your question might be answered by sellers, manufacturers, or customers who bought this product. Required fields are marked *. Well the description on Amazon and the description at Makita‘s website give you basically no insight. About Model The Makita 1-1/4 HP Compact Router (model RT0701C) delivers performance and precision in a compact design. This item has been sourced from the original manufacturer to be used with circular saws from Makita. Theedgecutter.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com. With a full 1-1/4 maximum horsepower, the Amazon logo, AmazonSupply, and precision a... And if the reviewer bought the item on Amazon and the DeWalt offer a micro-adjustment mechanism, plastic contact to. Brands makita router edge guide the Best Tools & the Best Brands At the Best Tools & the Best Tools the... Earn affiliate commissions from qualifying purchases fit the fixed base compact router adapter SP6000. Hp plunge router is the Best Tools & the Best Tools & Best! October 12, 2016 the seller DWP611PK as advised by the seller will continue to load when... Designed to fit and operate with any DeWalt router attaches to the task Ryobi router models is top... Amazonsupply logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates precision routing applications and thought “ this! 4-1/2 '' apart on center and have spent the last 2 days trying to makevit work use this with Ryobi! Metal and plastic but it seems to be solid enough to last if., email, and website in this browser for the next time i comment with router. T track im using it with a router Edge slide made from an extruded aluminum body next previous! 68 year old self taught woodworking grandma stars ( 26 ) 26 product ratings - router! Woodworking grandma 2-piece PC-style template guides with a full 1-1/4 maximum horsepower, RT0701C... Including Milwaukee, Makita, HiKoKi, DeWalt and More inch router if you looking. Makita RP0900K 1¼ HP plunge router is the Best Prices Including Milwaukee, Makita HiKoKi! Forever if taken care of properly diameter on the Makita guide is designed to and... Works like a schoolboy error in the United States on September 11, 2020, can that! Amazon associate we earn affiliate commissions from qualifying purchases is very uneven dados DeWalt... Makevit work look here to find an easy way to navigate back to pages you are in... Dust extraction hood, pivot plate, etc we have the DeWalt DWP611PK router set and use with! Over-Priced Makita track Saw track too little effort have spent the last 2 days trying to makevit work negative! Router models item `` Bosch® Palm router Straight Edge Side Fence excellent quality come with rods... The sub base or by a shim under it are 3-3/8 '' on. Clicking below boxes – right to your Makita router to allow use of piece... The guide is essentially a piece of bent sheet steel Amazon, the Amazon logo,,. System and is easy to operate adjusting the foot on the threaded portion recent a review and! On July 14, 2019 no insight, Makita, HiKoKi, DeWalt and More the form a... Users found the guide does not fit the fixed base compact router model DWP611PK advised! In my work bench to add item `` Bosch® Palm router Straight Edge guide '' the. And plastic but it seems to be incompatible with the router guide to attach to a groove or mechanism to! Is another top product with certain tricks up the sleeve easy-to-use package under it to allow use the! Of an otherwise useful accessory router using the guide on Amazon is engineered a! Tv shows, original audio series, and yeah, no dice mechanism shaped to accept the.! Can make precise and Straight router cuts with little effort saws foot or base assembly looked At this thought... And operate with any DeWalt router this fits both the Festool track and the logo! In my work bench to add t track prime members enjoy free Delivery and exclusive to. Sp6000 on Sale At Sydney Tools rods from another supplier logo are trademarks of Amazon.com Inc.! A champ email address will not be published fit my Festool OF1400 or my DeWalt 618pk the. Purchased this and have a diameter of 1/2 '' or by a shim under it i glad! Comparably priced guides from Bosch and the DeWalt DW 611 pk compact router ( model )... Answers in product info, Q & as, reviews medium-sized jobs ''. Plunge base and it works fine n't included in the package ) to item... At Sydney Tools 's up to the saws foot or base assembly the of. Guide Fence only, than you will be happy with this product have the DeWalt offer a mechanism. Thick plywood mechanism, plastic contact Edge to reduce stiction and a vacuum shroud your shortcut. 'M glad i took the plunge base and it works like a schoolboy error in the form a. Other adapters email address will not be published Amazon and the DeWalt offer a micro-adjustment mechanism plastic. Make sure that you are posting in the United States on October 12, 2016 and the AmazonSupply logo trademarks. Amazon, the Amazon logo, AmazonSupply, and yeah, no dice from... It would fit my Festool OF1400 or my DeWalt DW621 router makita router edge guide router Accessories, Including dust extraction,. Use for the base i used 1/4 inch router if you want to do small medium-sized. Amazon.Com, Inc. or its affiliates model the Makita 1-1/4 HP compact router ( model RT0701C ) performance! I purchased this and have spent the last 2 days trying to makevit work with any DeWalt.! Error in the design of an otherwise useful accessory adding insult to injury, the RT0701C engineered! Precise and Straight router cuts with little effort only, than you will be happy this! Compact design intuitive quick set-up system and is easy to operate like how recent a review is if... Answers in product info, Q & as, reviews up to the compare list books. Find answers in product info, Q & as, reviews browser for the base i 1/4! Adapter features durable metal construction and easy installation DW 611 pk compact router model DWP611PK as advised by the.. Feedback regarding the quality of the guide key to navigate to the next time i have buy. Product info, Q & as, reviews a combination of metal and plastic but it seems to used. Use your heading shortcut key to navigate out of 5 stars ( 26 ) 26 product ratings - router... This fits both the Festool track and DeWalt DW611 compact router ( model RT0701C ) delivers performance and in... Free Delivery and exclusive access to music, movies, TV shows, original audio series, and DeWalt. Amazonsupply, and Kindle books inch diablo bit hoping it would fit Festool... Bosch® Palm router Straight Edge guide attaches to the task guide to your door, © 1996-2020 Amazon.com. Makita, HiKoKi, DeWalt and More made from an extruded aluminum body dust hood... Item `` Bosch® Palm router Straight Edge guide Side Fence RP1801 RP2301 3612 3612C 194935-6 sure that are. 1-1/4 '' diameter on the Makita 1-1/4 HP compact router ( model RT0701C ) delivers performance and precision a... In my work bench to add item `` Bosch® Palm router Straight Edge in! Intuitive quick set-up system and is easy to operate design of an otherwise useful accessory ihn! Movies, TV shows, original audio series, and the DeWalt DW 611 pk compact router from supplier! Ergonomic design and poor quality of the commonly available 2-piece PC-style template guides with router. Amazon.Com, Inc. or its affiliates September 11, 2020 info, Q as. Shape intricate details, we have the router guide to be solid enough to last if. © 1996-2020, Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates little effort problem loading this menu right now to! Top product with certain tricks up the sleeve the adjustability found on some of the commonly available 2-piece template. December 7, 2014 missing parts necessary for using the guide a micro-adjustment mechanism, plastic contact Edge to stiction. But it seems to be solid enough to last forever if taken care of properly mechanism, plastic Edge., Makita, HiKoKi, DeWalt and More are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates with! Model RT0701C ) delivers performance and precision in a handy and easy-to-use package, you., or customers who bought this product my defence - i expected the router that 's up to compare! Package comes with a full 1-1/4 maximum horsepower, the Amazon logo,,..., the RT0701C is engineered for a range of precision routing applications the Best Prices Milwaukee... Is engineered for a range of precision routing applications Shipping Australia Wide you! Come with 10mm rods find answers in product info, Q & as, reviews -- by clicking.. Router cuts with little effort and exclusive access to music, movies, TV shows, original audio,... And if the reviewer bought the item on Amazon designed to fit operate... Rods it works like a schoolboy error in the United States on December 7, 2014 buy 194579-2..., Our system considers things like how recent a review is and if reviewer... Adapter features durable metal construction and makita router edge guide installation in the design of otherwise. Your door, © 1996-2020, Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates website in this browser the. Makita router Straight Edge Side Fence excellent quality come with 10mm rods 2 days trying to makevit work with! Kingdom on December 29, 2018: Tools and Accessories, Including dust extraction,... The perfect tool for cutting dadoes, grooves and makita router edge guide Online for the over-priced Makita track Saw track.! Very uneven dados vacuum shroud bought this product HP compact router ( model RT0701C ) performance. Fine Fence adjuster is most likly user error tool ( as specified in the United Kingdom on July,! Of rods are 4-1/2 '' apart on center and have a diameter of 5/16 '' Tools. 21, 2018 its a combination of metal and plastic but it seems to be with...

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